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nomadic1 @ 4/27/2010 1:44 PM EST   Dhodimeer How did they build they Liberian army? That is good question. I can not answer that question at the moment but we can surely find out if we made an effort. I think the underlying reason as why TFG is so incompetent in doing anything, even bad things, is because they don’t know what they want in the first place. Case in point, they set numerous dates and deadlines for opening their parliament when, more than anything else, there is no need to set such strict deadlines, and second, when they already know they can’t meet such a deadline. They also set deadlines for taking over the city when they didn’t need to. Dhodimeer You said “No doubt it is true that Somalia can be tamed and shaped into a secure and stable country only by a well equipped, well trained, well paid army before we talk about good governance.” That is well thought of powerful message. Let me say one thing about the later part of your message. I mean the conditional part – “well equipped, well trained, well paid army” They reason why I said it is so hard to build an army for Somalia as things stand is because it is hard to satisfy the conditions you mentioned above. In other words, Somalia is no longer Somalia, if that makes any sense. Equipment, training and pay are all subject to constraint. To overcome those constrains, the constraints itself needs to be fixed (localised). Sources of equipment, training methods and subject to be trained, sources of funds, all need to be fixed. That is Not possible in the Somalia we have today. Instead of moving along predictable path, you get SHIFTS. Shifts are dangerous and unpredictable.     nomadic1 @ 4/27/2010 1:11 PM EST  Somalipeace and Bagdady Bagdaday, I concur with your standpoint that Somalia is on the verge of extinction unless peace and stability which are prerequisite for nation rebuilding is found urgently.  I also agree with the idea of concentrating on building disciplined military in the bush for an extended period of time as opposed to spoon feeding incompetent  and rather corrupt wanna be politicians in an imaginary Villa Somalia. That said, Somalia is not your average Uganda, Rwanda and Israel. It is far more complex than all put together. Close to one million Somalis are now residing in the developed world. Somalia would have been better place had that number of people stayed put. Uganda and Rwanda did just that. Now, Somalia will be better place if a fraction of that million in the developed world choose to return. Israelis did that too. Somalipeace You are right. negotiation is not a bad thing per say but when is negotiation is negotiation? In trying to answer your questions…. I am afraid, no sane person should expect the current TFG to build such a force. The alternative? That is the million dollar question!! I believe bringing an alternative working formula to Somalia has become so hard and illusive, it has become an impossibility through human intervention, at least in the short run. Things have become so artificial and hard to predict. TFG is artificial because is so reliant on foreign financial and military support. That makes it not only unpredictable but also far drawn from reality. The Shabaabs are in their own unsustainable hyper driven bubble too. Their F1 speed to think, act and finish off everything in no time and their strong loyalty to outside powers unattached to the reality on the ground make them artificial too. Hizbul Islam is neither here nor there, so a cut between the two, too. So, in my humble view, only Allah can bring viable alternative to Somalia. Of course everything happens through the will of Allah (SW) but this time without any human, be they foreign of local, ever intending to. It is hard to build formidable army as things stand. As we all agreed, it is easier to build good army than it is to put together efficient governmental personnel and institutions but that does not mean it is easy to build a strong army in Somalia FOR SOMALIA. It is one thing building army in Somalia but quite another building an ARMY FOR SOMALIA. Why? Over to you guys.     dhodimeer @ 4/27/2010 6:25 AM EST  Miracles can happen though I don't think this TFG has the credibility to boast about building an army out of what is left of differnt clan malitia,  or out of the present marauding mooryaans who will join to any group that will hire them. In fact, in order to propel mooryaan recruits into a regular army, all one would have to do is compel a handful of hardened criminals to say positive things about its unreliable programmes and kill any one who might say something negative. No doubt it is true that Somalia can be tamed and shaped into a secure and stable country only by a well equipped, well trained, well paid army before we talk about good governace. With that in mind, I have a question: How did they built the Liberian Army, now the shining example of military prowess in all of West Africa? Iam not comparing the two countries but if they can build a proper army in Liberia, surely we can do it in Somalia.       Somalipeace10 @ 4/27/2010 2:25 AM EST  Nomadic1 &Baqdad Bob I think there is consensus on the fact that strong cultured army is prerequisite for reconstructing unified and strong Somalia. It is also true that , given the fact everything is distroyed, it is easier to start building police and military force from sctratch instead of relying time tested corrupted, inept ones.Both Kagame and Musaveni had very strong, discipled and structured force when they came to power, and it was easy from there.I think negotiation is not per se a bad thing, But in Somalia, such events have been attracting wrong crowd. My question is, can we expect the current TFG to build such force? If yes, how can they manage, given the apparent corruption and mismanagement? If the answer is no, what is the alternative? How can formidable army be build?     baghdad bob @ 4/26/2010 12:36 AM EST  I am too tired and sleepy, take care     baghdad bob @ 4/26/2010 12:33 AM EST  Nomad and Somalipeace A country like Israel was created by volunteers coming all over the world. Some of them were highly paid professionals from USA, France, UK etc and they joined their independence wars starting right from 1948, 1967 and 1973. Some paid for their own expenses in regard to their training, travel and upkeep in the name of creating a state of their own. Doctors left their comfortable homes in NYC and were trained for fighter pilots in rotating shift with lawyers etc Before they declared their aspirations of forming a state they already prepared a small army which came quite handy in the 1948 war. They were very much disciplined and highly motivated. We don’t need a huge army to stabilize Somalia.  The tragic thing in Somalia is that everyone wants to be a fully fledged president just like any other stable country. A Somali president must spend something close to 15-20 years in the bush and he must build a highly disciplined army and only after that should he march into villa Somalia. Each and every one of them wants to start from villa Somalia and outwards. The solution is a military one, and one we need to build ourselves if we really want to save Somalia from oblivion. Right now Somalia is in great danger, our enemies namely Kenya and Ethiopia have recognized that they can actually wipe us from the map of the world and get away from it. Knowing that fact is more frightening than anything else     baghdad bob @ 4/26/2010 12:14 AM EST  Nomad and Somalipeace There are many things I took for granted, for instance the availability of wise and enlightened general or colonel for that matter. But what I am absolutely against is to hold another negotiation in some foreign capital attended by tired looking tribal chiefs. There is a prerequisite for good governance and that is peace! Without peace you will have a president in villa Somalia hiding from his own people, protected by foreign soldiers! They are a lot of capable and highly educated men the TFG, some are already killed and others are hiding because the situation is such that anyone with a gun can kill anyone without one. Simply put there is no peace and peace ironically enough is created by armed men. A case in point is Uganda, after all these years museveni is unable to leave the presidency lest they go back to their civil war days of killing each other. All of uganda's neighbours were not interested in a stable uganda. Kenya tried all it could to stop musaveni but they failed because he kept a low key until he had enough armed men to defend himself and his country. What we need in somalia is to start from scratch and build a disciplined force     nomadic1 @ 4/25/2010 10:07 AM EST  Somalipeace Runtii aad ayaan ula dhacay doodiina ku salaysan sida ugu haboon ee Somalia xal waaro loogu heli lahaa. Sidaad u sheegtayba, xoog an aqoon iyo xeelad ku salaysnayn waxba tari maayo waayo horay ayaan u soo aragnay. Sidoo kale, wada hadal iyo baryo xal keeni wayday oo ayadana horaan ugu soo daalnay. Shaki kuma jiro in loo baahan yahay maamul nidaamsan oo ku salaysan aqoon iyo daacadnimo, shakina kuma jiro in loo baahan yahay awood military oo nabadgalyo keento. Laakin su’aashu waxay tahay, keebaa horeeyo given the prevailing situation and the human capacity at our disposal. I think SECURITY (which can only be brought by strong security force) and GOOD GOVERNANCE (which can be brought by having the right personnel and practices in place) are equally important. I think that is the bottom line of your respective arguments. I am sure you can come into a settlement once you agree upon which one takes priority over the other. For the following reasons, I go for a military approach. - Somalia needs security more than it needs good governance - Somalia needs complete makeover NOT fine tuning - It is easier and quicker to set up viable security force in Somalia - It takes longer to mend the ways of the current corrupt power hungry pool of politicians - It is hard to attract honest and educated individuals into the present and future set ups without good security - Somalia is stuck in an automatic “adverse selecting” mode that filters out the goods and attracts the bad - The facilities or systems needed for good governance are not present and will take time to …. - The Somali people are not used to any form of governance so anything will do for now - It is easier to set and control good military command than it is for creating a coherent well connected government with ministries, parliament and other institution. The former is easier to manage and control, the later is near impossible given the prevailing circumstances. - Building strong army will take potential trouble makers off the streets - Giving good governance priority will divert resources away from other avenues I sum, I am for the notion of putting Somalia under the command of a strong military General and military rule for an extended period. I am also for the notion of putting trained individuals in charge of public institutions, i.e health, education and finance. I am against the current toothless set up. They are too expensive, too corrupt and too inefficient.     Somalipeace10 @ 4/25/2010 4:14 AM EST  Nomadic1 Hadii dooda loo dhigo sida aad u bilowday, dadku aad ayey iskugu soo dhawaanlahaayeen, xalkuna waa dhowaan lahaa. Laakiin dadka raba in ay xiniinyo bixiyaan qofkii ka firir duwan, sidee laga yeelayaa? Tusaalaha aad soo qaadatay aad ayaad usaxday.Kooxdii qaabka cadaalada u dhow xooga qayb wax ku xaliyey lagana yaabo in ay sii wadi lahaayeen, waxaa ka qaribmay hogaankii oo sida aad saxda u sheegtay godkii loo qoday ayey madax madax u galeen. Caqli iyo xoog iswata ayaa wax tara. Taakiin xoog iska socda oo indhoolayaal wadaan waxbuu burburinayaa dadkana waa sii kala fogeeyaa. Mar kale mahadsanid, hadalkaaga caqliyeysan. Waxaan rajaynayaa in Bobka , dooda dulucdeeda kusoo noqdo oo xaniinyo bixinta iyo dilka dadka ay kala fikirka duwan yihiin joojiyo. Waana taas ah in qofka kaasoo horjeeda aad marka hore disho intii laraadin lahaa isku soo dhawaasho tan xalka fogaysay.     Somalipeace10 @ 4/25/2010 4:02 AM EST  Nomadic1 Aad ayaad u mahadsantahay. Waxaa laga yaabaa in aadan fikirkayga si fiican u fasirin. Aniga waxa aan aaminsanahay kan aad adiga hadda sheegray oo ah xoog caqli wado. Laakiin xoog maroodi ama dameer wax buu burburinayaa.Sida aad ogtahay, kawaran xooggii Itoobiya keentay iyo mooryaantii qabqablayaasha oo isbiirsaday 2007kii, xal miyey noqon kareen.Aniga waxaan qabaa hadii lahelo madax caqli leh oo dadta dalka iyo dadka ka fakari karta in isticmaalka xooga uu waxtarayo. Dooda aan lalahaa Bobka waxaa ay ahayd , waxaan rabay in aan tuso qaladaad uu faafinayey, markaas ayaa intuu si caqli leh u doodi lahaa waxa uu bilaabay cay iyo difaac qaladkiisii.Aniga maba aaminsani in doorasho iyo dhalanteedka Unku wado hada waxqabanayo. Laakiin madax wanaagsan oo sharafta iyo maalka shacabka iyo dalka ilaalin karta hadii la helo, xoog inay wa ku xaliyaan waa imaankartaa. Waxaa laga yaabaa xataa in aanan Bonka kala fakar ogayn.     nomadic1 @ 4/24/2010 9:03 PM EST   Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk Bobka and Somka Rasaasta markay idinka dhamaatay aa gacanta isula tagteen. Lool Alla igu ogoo seddex waddan oo kala duwan ayaan commentigiina ku soo aqriyay waxaana filayay inaad isku meel iman doontgaan laakiin waadba sii kala fogaateen. Bobka wuxuu aaminsan yahay in Somalia xal aan xoog ahayn aysan lahayn. Taas waan ku raacsanahay laakiin su’aasha is waydiinta mudan waxay tahay: Xageebuu xoog nidaamsan oo daacad ah ka imanayaa? Yaa hortaagan in Somalia xoog midaysan oo daacad ah ay samaysato? Somka isagu wuxuu taagan yahay xoog waxba ma taro ee wada hadal ayaa loo baahan yahay. Anigu waxay ila tahay in wada hadal iyo wada tashi uusan waxba u tarahayn Somalia. Somalia way isku dhax yaacday wayna doorsantay meel loo raacana ma ay laha xiligan hada la joogo. Sidaas darteed, uma baahno, democratic ama patenalistic leadership approach. Waxay u baahan tahay autoctratic approach aan cidna lagala tashan intii mudo ah. Waxay u baahan tahay xoog awood ku maquuniya marka koowaad, marka labaadna kasbada kalsoonida shacabka ayadoo aan wax la tashi ah lala samayn. Sida uu horay Somka u soo xusayba, dowlada jirta waa musuq maasuq, shacabkana waa kan dawladaas salka u ah oo waxba ma dhaamo. Sidaas darteed, ma jirto sal ku haboon wada hadal ama cilmi sare Somalia xiligan la joogo. Hadaan Bobka u soo noqdo, aad ayaan uga xumahay inaan iraahdo laba shay. Somalia ciidankii xoog ku maquunin lahaa ee daacad iyo midnimo la bidi lahaa waxaan ogalaanayn dawladaha shisheeye oo waxaa lagu eedaynayaa inay yihiin Islaamiyiin. Iyagana way is qaribayaan oo godkii looqoday ayay madax madax isugu tuurayaan. Tan labaadna, dawladaas aad labadiinaba isku raacdeen inay baabah tahay oo aysan xoog iyo xeelad midna lahayna ciidan ma soo saarayso hadii cid walba taageerto xoolo walbana la siiyo. Sidaas darteed, Somalia xal lagama gaarayo ilaa ay dawladaha shisheeye u ogalaadaan inay Somalia ciidan daacad ah diina leh samaystaan. Kuwa diinta sheeganayan ay nacasnimada iska daayaan. Waa iga intaa.     baghdad bob @ 4/24/2010 1:32 PM EST  somalipeace its the likes of you, the argumentative mr I-know-it-all thugs who reduced our beautiful country to rubble. if I had my way I would have started with the likes of you either vaporized or incacerated. Your luck of discipline is glaring in your line of thought. I know you know little about computers and how they function little less about the Internet. you are the reason why i emphasize on building a strong army just to avoid the likes of you and their outlandish philisophy. You wish to have had another round of talks in Europe or somehwere in USA but that is not going to happen.     Somalipeace10 @ 4/24/2010 9:40 AM EST  It is sad that you futiley try "to educate" me on how wikipedia works, well done. However, that does not deminish the fact that the premise of your whole argument was false and was edequately exposed. Your last comment demonstrated to me that we are not on the same wave length, so let us call it a day.     Somalipeace10 @ 4/24/2010 9:37 AM EST  It is obvious that you have difficulty in agruing logically. It is acceptable to find fault with the source when one disagrees with the facts put forward. However, facts are hand in this case. It is fact that Dayton accord was in 1995 while Kosovo war was four years later 1999. That information is readily available everywhere if one knows how to look up. It is aparent that your friend misinformed you when he told you that Renamo was defeated in Mozambique, and Sudan government was defeated by SPLA. Instead of trying to conceal your error, it is better to admit and learn from it.     Somalipeace10 @ 4/24/2010 7:47 AM EST  Baqdad Bob Baqdad Bob It is surprising how your memory lets you down. It was you who wrote that: "a case in point is the bosnian civil war. it wasn't ended through negotiations but through devastating air strikes once the serbian militia expanded the war and started a new front in Ksosovo, my friend served there and I know the details of the serbian surrender." Now you are accusing me of saying it. I doubt whether you know the difference between conflict and armed conflict. Conflicts are prevalent in every country but the problem arises when parties fail to resolve it peacefully. What ended in Bosnia is the armed conflict. The peace that is prevailing now may ne interim or absence of war but there is no armed conflict going on. Whether the parties in Bosnia are capable of achieving durable/sustainable peace depends on how the post conflict situation is managed. You were trying to argue that Bosnian armed conflict ended when Kosovo airstrikes took place. When I demonstrated that you are dead wrong, you try to justify it by using other nonsensical arguments.     baghdad bob @ 4/23/2010 6:09 PM EST  somalipeace I honestly didn't mean to laugh at you but I just can't help when one refers to wikipedia as a "solid source". wikipedia like any other media tool is meant for people like you and I don't blame you for that. There are different crawlers and scanners you can make use of. Try capturing the entire site and you can use different tools for that or simple linux commands and then scan them for source entries. They don't even bother using proxies/anonymizers anymore 'cause they don't exepect people like you will suspect what ever they say or put in there. Now google the net for wikipedia edits and you will find its always edited by all sorts of interest groups, various military intelligence agencies etc its no longer a secret and its out there. The bottom line is don't believe everything you read on the internet. There are lots of advanced stuff they do to net content. for instance they have the possibility of changing few words that alter the entire content of the site like they did to the president of iran on an iranian site. I don't blam you pal continue quoting wikis lol       baghdad bob @ 4/23/2010 5:49 PM EST  somalipeace so in your own little sweet world the war in Bosnia ended! how naive! you remind me of president Bush claiming the war in Iraq being over! US didn't even loose a thousand men when they declared the war to be over. The same case applied in Bosnia, for your information the war is still on, Bosnia is occupied by Croats and Serbians and every little cent they lay their hands on goes to buying arms and training more soldiers. A place I know more than you will ever for some obvious reasons. Do you know how many "peacekeepers" are still in Bosnia? what were the causes of the kosovo war? but again you believe what you are told and what you read in newspapers. You quoting from wikipedia lol that alone made me understand how farfetched you are from the realities of the world. Ratko maldic and his men are still on the ground, very active and armed like never before. They are enjoying their loot with their guns looms over the hill of every Bosnain city and you have the guts to claim the war being over? what we have there is a ceasefire and not peace and that is why croats and bosnians don't dare going back home. Cities like mostar are still deivided along ethnic lines and you don't dare crossing from one street into another, almost all serbs were expelled or killed and can't go back there anymore. The whole of bosnia is a patchwork of ethnically divided cities and villages all armed to the teeth. because you never been anywhere near it so you simply assume from what you read in newspapers and above all wikipedia lol check who edits wikipedia lol.         Somalipeace10 @ 4/23/2010 3:18 AM EST  It is well know phenomenon that military might played sifnificant role in shaping European state formation, and arguably in many other places.My submission is that, we do not need to copy a method that might have worked elsewhere and blindly import to Somalia. Somalia needs a very good army, good institutions and many more, but my contention is that we cannot achieve none of these things without leaders who are capable to lead the nation. That has been our obvious failure up to now. Somalia once had the strongest army in sub-saharan Africa, and that army disintegrated due to the leadership shortsightedness and failure. Once a country has good leaders, then that would serve as a catalyst. However, corrupted, narrow-minded,cronism based systems can not rescue states like Somalia. The two leaders you mentioned earlier Museveni, Kagame combined good organisation, vision and that allowed them to build a very formidable army and state institutions. But you cannot build an army or police force when their supposed salaries are siphonned off by their superiors. I think we can agree on that.     Somalipeace10 @ 4/23/2010 2:48 AM EST  Baqdad Bob I am glad your lack of knowledge of these issues you are trying to discuss is overtly exposed by the fact that you think Bosnian war was ended by Kosovo airstrikes. The fact is that Dayton accord was concluded in November  1995 see the following link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayton_Agreement While Kosovo airstikes took place almost four years later in 1999 see the following link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/266227.stm I think that settles the whole argument and clearly shows the falsehood and reliance on hearsay rather than solid knowledge. Everyone with mediocre of brain understands that good diciplined military is necessary to sustain a state, however, the argument here is how to create one from scratch.     baghdad bob @ 4/22/2010 7:16 PM EST  Countries are created by force and they are sustained by military might. The resulting society is governed by law which is enforced by the police - another armed unit, this is the basic human reality. All else is pure talk and philosophical dicussions. Any country that deviates from the realities of this world will be devoured by marauding forces within/without in due course as the case is today in somalia. Talk of parliamnet, negotiations, enlightened leader  and other abstract ideas come much later once we have a functioning system. we can't simply read books meant for advanced societies and apply their ideas in a country where 95% of the population are illiterates, their survival clan based and their view of leadership is based on their tribal chief.           baghdad bob @ 4/22/2010 6:57 PM EST  somalipeace its funny how you keep on repeating the same mistake over and over. a case in point is the bosnian civil war. it wasn't ended through negotiations but through devastating air strikes once the serbian militia expanded the war and started a new front in Ksosovo, my friend served there and I know the details of the serbian surrender. The serbians were forced to negotiate once they were defeated. All the examples you gave were in way or another forced into the negiating table. The serbains categorically refused to partake in any peace negoatiations and retaliated instead with massacres until the US military machine stepped in. The plan was to neutarlize their infrastructure even though it started badly with the chinese embassy vaporized in seconds the message was "make peace or we willbomb you" and there is no much peace to keep even today.     fiqicigaal @ 4/22/2010 2:25 PM EST  Military has never been the complete answer and will never be. Army generals are trained to lead their troops and march them to wars and they can be good at it,  but they are not trained to lead a nation. Real Politicians always lie to spread their word but they make better leaders than army Generals.     sonofsomalia @ 4/22/2010 11:32 AM EST  Dear Mahamed Abdullahi, Your recommendations have been filed with the department of dreams and critics. We currently have 29 level approval process, we wish you all the best in your unique ideas being confirm. In the meantime, please feel free to amalgamate as many ideas as you can into your solidly, although amaturishly writen ideas. Sincerly Department of Ideas, Ministry of Information Somalia     kucadaye @ 4/22/2010 10:09 AM EST  Nonsense! coming from "Ahlu Jago" camp!     somalipeace10 @ 4/22/2010 8:19 AM EST  Baqdad bob You started to use quotes to support your claim, so let me submit some quotes. Mao Zedong was quoted as saying "An army without culture is dull-witted army, and a dull-witted army cannot defeat the enemy".To create an army with culture you first need leaders with culture not the other way round. The Otto Von Mismarck you quoted also said " Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think hard before starting a war". That is one of the qualities of the kind of the leader we need.     somalipeace10 @ 4/22/2010 7:53 AM EST  What is astounding is narrow mindedness and ignorance of some nomads, not all of them. The senario that definitely fits the defition of Einstain is the suggestion that the current corrupted, Ethiopian created parliament,leaders and some commanders who have track record of unlawfull bloodletting , corruption and nepotism will create good army that will ensure stability. In fact, that failed method has been tried for the last decades and it failed miserably. What Somalia needs at the moment is visionary leaders with good, knowledgable advisors who can extract Somalia from thsi seemingly unending saga. Subsequently, it will be possible to contemplate building army and police. It is both naive, unrealistic and insane to think that the current mix will acheive that.     somalipeace10 @ 4/22/2010 7:46 AM EST  Baqdad Bob Military might not in concert with good strategic plan and good leaders with integrity and vision serves nothig. The peace between Egypt and Isreal was initiated by the so-called Safari group, that was prepared years prior to the actual implementation.Siad Barre,Mingistu, Mabutu and all the rest of the by gone dictators has military might, but they lacked sound policies based on good judgement and national interet, and that had led to their downfall.     somalipeace10 @ 4/22/2010 7:41 AM EST  Bagdad bob It is intriguing how you selectively and creatively try to (mis)interpret events in history. The government of Sudan was not defeated and was not even near that when the negotiation was conducted, certainly there was political pressure. The Coambodian conflict was ended with Paris Accord and the subsequent UN administration in early nineties. The Bosnian conflict was ended by Dayton accord. It would be wise to try and get the facts right first.There is consensus that when military victory by one of the parties is followed by good governance based on equality, rule of law and meritocracy, it is much better option than negotiation only.Nevertheless, visionary leaders are prerequisite who can foresee and forestall all potential trouble points. Certainly. we do not have in Somalia now, and we did not have them in the near past.     baghdad bob @ 4/21/2010 9:01 PM EST  The naivety of the nomad is astounding, they talk about parliament in a country without police and courts? who is going to enforce the law they make? al shabab? There is no need of worrying about the roof when you don't even have the walls! haven't we tried negotiations time and again? aren't we repeating the same solution over and over while expecting a different result? isn't that the definition of insanity? All countries are started, based, sustained and maintained by the strength of their army. not a single civilization started out of mere talk. The wise leader needs an army to support him and tuen his words into action. negotiations not backed with force will turn into a palestinian-israeli empty talk.       baghdad bob @ 4/21/2010 8:52 PM EST  somalipeace Otto von Bismark once said: The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood.It was true then and its true now, all negotiations are backed by a strong army. The best of all examples is the peaceful negotiations between egypt and israel, the israelis realized after the Ramadan war of 1973 that peace with egypt was imperative     baghdad bob @ 4/21/2010 8:47 PM EST  somalipeace in Sudan the north was defeated and they were forced into submission of which the south will be an independent country come 2011, in muzambique the rebels were defetaed and negotiation was the only option left, in angola savimbi was killed and his rebels surrendered under false negotiations, in sirilanka the tamils are completely defeated and they negotiated their surrender, in cambodia with the defeat of the government by the rebels in 1975 largely brought the war to an end. All the examples you gave ended in defeat and with military might. negotiated settlements come about when one party realizes defeat is eminent, we don't have that yet in somalia.       maadgaran @ 4/21/2010 4:31 PM EST  Wiilwaal-28 We already had a number of Camels and Cows as presidents an prime ministers, how can the Masai Cow and Oromo Camel do better than ours? Our recent presidents were not much better than Camels in a sesame oil mill. To operate the mill, one has to blindfold the Camel, tight the saddle, and hit it with stick just once.  The Camel walks in circle without knowing and in the process grinds the  sesame seed to produce the oil (saliid macsaro). As a boy I use to watch the process with admiration. Most of  our leaders were fighting the wars of others with expense of destroying our country. I believe many of them did  not even understand these wars were to benefit our arch enemies.     dhodimeer @ 4/21/2010 3:56 PM EST  waa nala qasaayaa nala qeybsanayaa unukuna waysqaleynaa qolo qolo isu dileynaa qalalaasa abuureynaa qabrigena qodeynaa qaadir baa tuugeynaa inuu tuugta qabqabto!     wiilwaal-28 @ 4/21/2010 12:06 PM EST  Nuunow,in that case we will borrow the Cow from Kenia(masai tripe),the Camel from Oromo everyone happy now?I hope so.     Somalipeace10 @ 4/21/2010 1:34 AM EST  I am sorry to say but this is an empty talk, all known things and nothing new. It is insanity to beleive that 550 so-called parliament, consisting mostly of warlords and other semi-illiterate individuals, will usher in new era, that is naivity and bad judgement. The other interesting thing is some of the commentators want to falsify the history. There are countless countries where civil conflict or conflict between states is ended with negotiated settlement, examples are abound, like Muzambique, Cambodia, Lebonan, South Sudan and many others. The fact that we do not know, does not mean it does not exist. What Somalia needs is good leaders with integrity including parliament members who can lead but not a bunch of hungry hyenas like has been the case for over thirty years.     nuunow @ 4/20/2010 10:26 PM EST  Wiilwaal-28 LOL, very funny indeed! BTW, the Camel and the Cow are owned by which clan? KKKKKKK     wiilwaal-28 @ 4/20/2010 9:24 PM EST  Somalia waxay u baahan tahay intaan . 1)Camel as a president 2)cow as prime minister 3)no more 4.5 but 5.0(shan qabiilo) 4)shanta qabiilo,shan wasiir. 5)shan wasiir ku xigeen(from every qabiil) 1)a.the Camel president waa in si fiican loo qurxiyaa.  b.the cow primeminister,will have the same treatment.  c.shanta waziiro waa in ay is ixtiraamaan,as somalis.  d SOMALIS WILL BE BROTHERS AGAIN.     baghdad bob @ 4/20/2010 9:13 PM EST  somalia needs a strong army and its to be started from scratch until they become a force to be reckoned with. A strong well disciplined army led by a true nationalist who respects and fears Allah is what we need. when kigame tried to pacify rwanda the entire east and central africa were up in arms the same was true in the case of uganda. neighbouring countries prefer to exploit their fallen neigbours, in the case of uganda, kenya was the main culprit and it came to a point where Museveni had to prapare his army in attacking kenya as the kenyans intesified their destibilization efforts once they saw that museveni was capable of bringing uganda back on its feet.     baghdad bob @ 4/20/2010 9:05 PM EST  aligaagaale I fully agree with you, one is the cause and the other is the symptom. There is no country in the world that wasn't manupulated once a civil war borke out. what somalia needs is someone like Museveni of uganda or kigame of rwanada. all those countries were pacified and united by a selfless hardworking men. not a single country in the world ever solved a civil war by peaceful means or through negotiations, its a historical fact and somalia will not be the first to defy history.     daacad1 @ 4/20/2010 6:57 PM EST  what somalia needs waa gumeesi dhab ah     fiqicigaal @ 4/20/2010 1:53 PM EST  Iam not so sure about his plan strategy and how it will fit to the political situation in Somalia but in all fairness the writer is right to blame the TFG for its corruption, incompetence and the lack of will to lead its people with solid conviction. He was also right to accuse extremists for the failure and the stagnant insecurity that has become the norm without any forseable dialogue and understanding to pave the way for peace and stability in Somalia. I do agree with aligaagaale that Somalia can only be defeated by itself not by outsiders and that is what was the case for the last twenty odd years or so.     aligaagaale @ 4/20/2010 10:41 AM EST  Stickorcarrot, What I disagree with brother mucaawiye is the defeatism that we have no liberty.  We have liberty to do what ever we want in our country.  If we decide to change things in our country and we all unite, who can stop us?  The problem is there is no will and leadership and still, that is our problem.         aligaagaale @ 4/20/2010 10:32 AM EST  Stickorcarrot First is the internal disunity and disorganization and second is the international meddling.  Without internal circumstances that allow external enemies to manipulate, external interference would not be effective.  For instance, if there is no clan animosity and people are united, Ethiopia would not succeed in its desire to annihilate Somali people.  Who is responsible of the disunity? Its us, not external forces. The internal problem is the primary and the external is the secondary.  Both are our national obstacles.       Stickorcarrot @ 4/20/2010 9:55 AM EST  Aligaaagaale I think Mucaawiye is right on the money. All the internal divisions are the consequence of the constant outside interference of our internal affairs. It took us long time to come to this stage and it will take even longer to come out of this mess. Just concentrating "internal problem" won't do anything in our situation we need broader vision!     aligaagaale @ 4/20/2010 5:59 AM EST  Mucaawiye, I disagree with you 100%.  We did not loose our liberty but we are making wrong choices that give external entities opportunities to exploit Somalia to their advantage.  Our internal obstacles, clan and religious divisions as well as lack of leadership and vision, are the problem.     mucaawiye @ 4/20/2010 1:20 AM EST  This writer is rather too naïve, self centered, and a lonely dude in somewhere in North America. The problem is not the lack of good strategy for Somalia;  Somalia is no longer for Somalis to decided what is good or bad strategy any more, there are too many, way too many other deciders and stake holder for Somalia, and each stakeholders has a needs to be met before we talk about good strategy. We had lost the liberty and leverage to make our own decision for Somali in a very long time ago.     lula @ 4/19/2010 10:41 PM EST  Change is good!!!!but before you change anything, Amison must go and take with them TFG!!!What is insanity? doing the same thing over and over but expecting different result? If you can grasp this concept then parhaps it is not too late.Help is at hand!!!     nuunow @ 4/19/2010 9:50 PM EST  Even though I have some disagreements, it still sounds like a good strategic plan with thoughtful ideas. We are generally pretty negative in everything - criticizing, condemning and complaining WAY too much. Maybe its just a coping mechanism for current fiasco but still we need to avoid destructive criticism and try to come up with new plans and solution. As the Author said, the current Somali conflict can be overcome. We need this kind of positive MENTALITY!!! As they say: "Positive thinking and attitude are the keys to SUCCESS". "b.      The new leadership must be selected on the basis of merit, competency and high integrity." I totally concur - qualified leadership is very crucial to any successfull goverment.     momo519 @ 4/19/2010 9:25 PM EST   Blah Blah Blah, indeed!     howle @ 4/19/2010 9:03 PM EST  kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk how do you like ? what do you like? Double double You will be Minister of Information. I like these kind of articles because people like you are not outside or in the cabinet. Again KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK     objective @ 4/19/2010 5:37 PM EST  Bla, bla, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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