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saba @ 1/26/2009 11:31 AM EST  Obviously you don't understand the concept of defeat!!     saba @ 1/26/2009 11:28 AM EST  So the Ethiopians may know through you,why that incident sticks out. It wasn't vietnam after all. It has nothing to do with Number of soldiers ki'lled. Has nothing to do that poor somalia did it. That much you can take home to .     saba @ 1/26/2009 11:13 AM EST   No he didn't.  He facilitated though to the ones who did.     logs4017 @ 1/26/2009 10:54 AM EST  MR Saba, You need seriously to educate your self, This is my sincere advice to you, by the way do you still believe that *GN.Aidiid* has defeated the Americans in 1993??! HA HA HA     saba @ 1/26/2009 7:38 AM EST   "a somali" huh??     logs4017 @ 1/26/2009 7:32 AM EST  Mr.Saba , I'm not seeking your approval to express my point of view,This is an open Space for all Somalis around the globe to express their views,  if you want to simplify the matter to fit your law mentality, its up to you,,but we wont accept that. BY : LOGS4017 l [email protected]     saba @ 1/25/2009 3:10 PM EST  Just for your knowledge the Ethio-Eriterian war was an organise war. It didn't matter to the junta in addis whether the poor undesirables di'ed by the hundreds or thousands. Many things are different in the war they waged in Somalia. In the first they knew when they won and when they lost. When they were going to att'ack and being att'acked. It was clear cut,regardless of how many soldiers they lost. In the case of Somalia, it was merry-go-round. They fell trapped into the mayhem they created. Just so you know Logos,we remember who you are. You are the one who wanted to tell us what we beliefe,way back when i stopped you. Now you are chnging tone. This forum is for Somalis,do not pretend to care for us,and get lost,please!     logs4017 @ 1/25/2009 8:57 AM EST  just for your knowledge, During Ethiopia-Erteria War, Ethiopia lost the estimated number of 500,000 foot soldiers, and 3.5 Billion US Dollars,therefore i believe that the Ethiopian intervention in Somalia is just a Simple summer picnic, Some Somalis like your self want to simplify the matter as its a simple fist fight between two bullies and one of them get defeated and therefore he run away,HA HA HA,,,, Ethiopia Left Somalia merely because George W Bush Regime is not in power any more, and it seems that Mr Obama is not willing to pay any more cash due to the current financial crisis. BY : LOGS4017 l [email protected]     logs4017 @ 1/25/2009 8:53 AM EST  Here You go, Another Somali Diaspora member who doesn't know any thing about the current situation on ground trying to tell us nonsenses.     logs4017 @ 1/25/2009 8:37 AM EST  Here You go, Another Somali Diaspora member who doesn't know any thing about the current situation on ground trying to tell us nonsenses.     maaxaay @ 1/25/2009 7:20 AM EST  To Abdishakur Jowhar M.D, I like your articles but not this one. It is incoherent and can't follow the logic of your argument. But I have few comments to make: (1) it was not Al-shabab who defeated Ethiopia. It is ALL resistance movements whether be it SECULAR or religious who defeated Ethiopia. It was also defeated by the actions of brave and peace loving personalities who engaged the enemy through negotiation, and also who had the guts to initiate reconciliation between Somalis. This was supported by the UN. (2) "Somaliland" is part and parcel of Somalia, so I can't understand your suggestion of Shebab's peace with "Somaliland."  (3) You are trying to make Al-shebab of something they are not. Shebab are isolated extremist group and every one knows that, and it is won't be long before people in the South will dismantle their terror apparatus. Remember even the military regime tried to ban Khat but did not succeed so to praise them for banning Khat is a cheap argument. Even the Somali people in your "Somaliland" enjoy eating Khat. I know the habit has social ills but to glorify Al-shebab for banning Khat is something I can't understand. (4) Ethiopia left Somalia because from the beginning she knew she could not stay there for even for many reasons, and now that George Bush administration has gone, Ethiopia have lost it is financial support and bailer.             maaxaay @ 1/25/2009 7:17 AM EST  To Abdishakur Jowhar M.D, I like your articles but not this one. It is incoherent and can't follow the logic of your argument. But I have few comments to make: (1) it was not Al-shabab who defeated Ethiopia. It is ALL resistance movements whether be it SECULAR or religious who defeated Ethiopia. It was also defeated by the actions of brave and peace loving personalities who engaged the enemy through negotiation, and also who had the guts to initiate reconciliation between Somalis. This was supported by the UN. (2) "Somaliland" is part and parcel of Somalia, so I can't understand your suggestion of Shebab's peace with "Somaliland."  (3) You are trying to make Al-shebab of something they are not. Shebab are isolated extremist group and every one knows that, and it is won't be long before people in the South will dismantle their terror apparatus. Remember even the military regime tried to ban Khat but did not succeed so to praise them for banning Khat is a cheap argument. Even the Somali people in your "Somaliland" enjoy eating Khat. I know the habit has social ills but to glorify Al-shebab for banning Khat is something I can't understand. (4) Ethiopia left Somalia because from the beginning she knew she could not stay there for ever for many reasons, and now that George Bush administration has gone, Ethiopia has lost it is financial supporter and banker so Ethiopia is broke and as you said demoralised and (5) finally you seem to support Shebab's take over of the south but remember if that ever happens then they will certainly take over  "Somaliland" so there will be "Islamic State of Horn of Africa." So you are welcome to the world of Shebab!             awrliqe @ 1/24/2009 8:40 PM EST  al shabaab are bought and paid for by the Saudi Mukhabaraat they are funded generously to the tune of 200 dollars per fighter. this is the same saudi regime that licks Israeli and US arse and helps kill the innocent people of Gaza.  Al Shabaab is part of Saudi policy to keep Somalis in chaos so they never develop their Oil/Gas resources.     Vebaro @ 1/24/2009 10:56 AM EST  somali unity brother you raised a great point,but i doubt if it make a sense to those who are brainwashed.     Vebaro @ 1/24/2009 10:24 AM EST  Simbe brother aqliga saliimka ahaaba alshabaab ayuu ku danbeeyaa,cida dhaanta maanta ee aqli la weydiinaayo bal noo sheeg. 300 ee mudanayaasha baarlamaanka isku sheegaayo ,hal nin oo sharaf leh ,ama hal urur oo danta soomaaliya ka shaqeeynaayo bal inoo sheeg. dhamaantood waa duli qayilaad,xiqdi,dad iskudir,qabiil ka sheekeyn isku baheystay. taas waxaa sii dheer ma aha rag xor ah.bal cida alshabaab dhaanta noo sheeg     diidgaal @ 1/24/2009 9:33 AM EST  simbe and momo519 R sore losers b/c YEEY yusuf is gone. Anything good in the south is a threat to them. These R the guys who used to defend YEEY yusuf along with Caraweelo. Now, they just continue to talk nonsense. We're in the ge of "mental slavery" and their mind certainly has been enslaved.     nomadic1 @ 1/24/2009 6:17 AM EST  Incoherent and ambiguous. “Peace with Ethiopia and Kenya and Djibouti and Somaliland is a necessary precondition for peace inside Somalia”. Isn’t Somaliland part of Somalia???     simbe @ 1/24/2009 6:15 AM EST  Vebaro Vebaro ayaa ku hayo haddaad taas rumaysantahay. Caqligii wadan dhan lagu xukumi lahaa meeshaan ma yaalo kamana muuqdo.     somali unity 12 @ 1/24/2009 3:39 AM EST  Dear brother/sisters momo do you have first hand experience of the atrocities taking place in Somali that you accuse Al Shabab Committing? I’m guessing your living a comfortable life in the WEST that’s why you appose  Al Shabab. as the western ideology has invaded  your intellect to the point you can’t comprehend to what Al Shabab’s  mission is, which is to establish the law of Allah to rule above anything. We say No to democracy (which Is hypocrisy) we say No to qaabiil conflict and ignorance altogether.       Vebaro @ 1/23/2009 6:32 PM EST  Whether you like it or not .whether americans like or not,Al shabaab will rule somalia and bring peace and stability un the country     momo519 @ 1/23/2009 2:31 PM EST   diidgaal, Brother Gaadh'haye, you are so wrong about NUUN. He thinks you are Somali who know alot about Somalia. If Shabab is strong, why not take total control of the south? Don't tell me , Let me guess, others don't want fighting and care about peace!!! HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA. Anyone who likes Shabab wants continuation of d'eath, destruction, disunity.     momo519 @ 1/23/2009 2:21 PM EST   ...and anyone who likes Shabab wants continuation of d'eath, destruction, disunity.     saba @ 1/23/2009 1:26 PM EST  "why can't anything good lasts in our Somalia"? asks the writer. INTEL INSIDE, perhaps!! The TIMELY coincidence of the Toms demolished flamboyantly,tells tales. Timely coincides with the creation of the so called Sufi groups ie WARLORDS REINCARNATED. Oponents who need each other,craeted at the same time!! I wonder sometimes about.. THE ACCURACY OF THE TIMING!!     fiqicigaal @ 1/23/2009 12:43 PM EST  Correction:i mean't to say as it was not acceptable for the enemy to occupy southern Somalia, not as it was not unacceptable for the enemy to occupy southern Somali .....     diidgaal @ 1/23/2009 11:37 AM EST  Brother Gaadh'haye, U R so right about nuun. He thinks we're foreigners who know nothing about somalia. If shabaab is weak, why not remove them? Don't tell me, let me guess, others care about peace and not fighting!!! HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA. Anyone who doesn't like shabaab wants corruption,tribalism and fake democracy.     Gaadh'haye @ 1/23/2009 9:06 AM EST  Nuun, So what’s your point? Are you against Alshabaab or the Resistance formations? If they were cowards as you portray them here, they would not be in control of almost 2/3 of southern Somalia. Also, when everyone was running to Asmara they remained behind and established the base of the Resistance. Tell us something else but not baseless propaganda. Didn’t they teach at school how to narrate a nice, lovely, beautiful kiddy stories? You remind me of Cigaal Shiidaad folklore tales back in my old days at Dugsiga Hoose/Dhexe Taleex. Come up with more entertaining stuff or quit this lousy story of yours.     Nuun @ 1/23/2009 8:28 AM EST  Everybody in Somalia knows that Al-shabaab are week in terms of military. Yes they do somethings that few somalis know such as suicide bombing and some explotion expertise but when it comes to fighting no  single battle shabaab alone scored any damage to enemy let alone victory. In kismayo they were about to be destroyed by Barre Hiiraale militia until they got hand from group of former UIC's led by Turki. Listen to the Turk's BBC interview about why he  involved in Kismayo fighting; he said the plan was not to attach kismayo while ethiopians are still in the country but when he saw some of the mujahideens(shabaab) about to be finished, we had to help them.  Look what happened to them in Guriceel where group of nomadic people with only AK47 killed and captured their best. Wallaahi if you ask the real fighters who are mostly UIC and Jabiso who are not always after microphone, they will tell you Al-shabaab is joke. Ask the ugandese about what they think about al-shabaab threat; they will smile at you.     fiqicigaal @ 1/23/2009 5:23 AM EST  Ethiopia will never be and has never been a friendly neighbour , it illegally occupies ogaden and that is not acceptable, as it was not unacceptable for the enemy to occupy southern Somalia and other parts of Somalia. There is no peace without freedom, the people of mogadisho had no option but to fight the enemy , they did it bravely and the enemy was forced to flee and withdraw its troops with failure and disgust, the same struggle must continue in ogaden, we will not rest until ogaden is free and its people  given the choice to unite with their brothers and sisters in Somaliweyn, that will be a matter of choice of course. As for alshabaab , it is fair and true to say that they are the saviour of our nation from what could have been a permenant occupation and a cruel enslavement of our people by the enemy if not fought by a fearless  brave alshabaab fighters who will be remembered in Somali history in many years to come. Alshabaab needs to change its tatics in the face of this stage in our politics when diplomacy and tolerance will pave the way for a unity and a lasting peace in Somalia.     momo519 @ 1/22/2009 10:02 PM EST  Excellent article! One way to know that it is a balance article is that both sides are critizing it. LAMADAGE and JAYKLEN represent millions of Somalis. Lamadage(a typical Alshabab militia) indirectly suggested the author as a "Kufri". As noted by the writer, anyone that expresses Alshabab dissatisfaction, is quickly marked as Kufar, Murtid, Christian sympathiser and so forth. JAYKLEN called the author as "Naive" for not speaking out against Alshabab as the current obstacle to a Mogadishu peace. The writer of this article has done an excellent job summarizing the current situation in southern Somalia. The title should have been The Current Dilemma in Southern Somalia!     @ 1/22/2009 7:52 PM EST  ASALAAMU-ALAYKUM MY PEOPLE!!! MAY ALLAH TABAARAKA WATA-AALAA BRING PEACE AND PROSPERITY 2 SOMALIA AND 2 EACH SOMALI PERSON INSHA-ALLAH!!! WHEN SIYAD BARE "GOD BLESS HIS SOUL" RULED SOMALIA. THA SOMALI PEOPLE WORSHIPPED SOMALIA AND SIYAD BARE. IF ANY ONE THINK AM LYING,THAN LOOK BACK AND WATCH HOW OUR PEOPLE USE 2 CONDUCT.THATS THA ROOT OF WHY WE ARE IN THA STATE WE ARE IN.AS THA CIVIL WAR HAPPENED, AGAIN OUR PEOPLE WORSHIPPED TRIBES INSTEAD OF REPENTING AND RETURNING 2 ALLAH.FINALLY,SOME PEOPLE FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM IS WE AIN'T WORSHIPPING ALLAHCORRECTLY.HOW-EVER,THOSE PEOPLE,I MEAN THA RELIGIOUS GROUPS,THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF ISLAM WERE WEAK.THEY BECAME EXTREMIST, BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ANY SCHOOLS THAT TOUGHT THE RELIGION.LOOK AT EVERY LEADER OF EACH RELIGIOUS GROUP.THESE GUYS ARE YOUNG,SO THEY BECAME CONFUSED AND EXTREMIST.IN THA QURAN,ALLAH WORNS US NOT TO BE EXTREMISTS. I GUESS THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT!!! EVEN WORST,THEY HAVE NO COMMON SENSE LITERLLY. POLITIC IS ALL ABOUT COMMON SENSE,SO IF YOU HAVE QURAN THE WHICH IS THY GUIDIANCE 2 LIFE. THAN,WHATS THE PROBLEM? HOW CAN WE SAY 2 SOME ONE THAT WORSHIPPES ALLAH;HE'S NOT A BELAVER,HE DOESN'T WORSHIPP ALLAH. THAT IS A SHIRK MY FRIENDS.IT'S SAD THAT WE ARE THA ONLY COUNTRY ALLAH BLESSED IN THIS WORLD 2 HAVE PEOPLE OF JUST SAME RACE,SAME RELIGION AND SAME LANGUAGE.YET,WE CAN BE BROTHERS,FOR EXAMPLE,WHY ARE THE RELIGIOUS GROUPS FIGHTING NOW? I THINK THE NEW FACE FOR THIS PLENTY FACES OF THE WAR IN SOMALIA IS NOW RELIGION AGAINST RELIGION. MY ? IS WHY HAVEN'T THESE AL-SHABAAB GROUP AND THY ICU TAKE THE FIGHT IN ETHIOPIA!!! DO Y'LL FEEL ME! THEY COULD WALK 2 ETHIOPIA,AND THEY HAVEN'T EVEN ONCE SCARED THE HEAD OF THEIR ENAMY THATS SO CLOSE 2 THEM. PLEASE,LETS GET REAL AND COME TOGETHER 2 SAFE OUR PEOPLE.WE HAVE THE LONGEST OCEON SHORE IN AFRICA.WE DESTROYED OUR PARADISE AND PEOPLE. LETS TRY 2 SAVE AND BUILD WHAT WE GOT LEFT!!!     somali unity 12 @ 1/22/2009 6:15 PM EST  salaam alaikum to you all, I agree with diidgaal what’s the point in starting something good and then spoiling it. I red the article with hope, but what you failed to understand is the advocacy of al Shabab which is the true teaching of Islam( the establishment of the shari’ah ). Your argument regarding what position they should take is all mixed up. After reading the whole article I came to the conclusion, your perception of Somalia is one with out the Islamic state which, is Al Shabab’s mission at the end result. May allah keep them firm on the haqq!     JAYKLEN. @ 1/22/2009 5:27 PM EST  THIS JOWHAR GUY IS NAIVE AL-SHABAB ARE AlREADY TURNING THEIR GUNS TO FElLOW SOMALIS NOW THE EHTIOPIANS ARE GONE THEY ARE TERRIRISTS.  UNWILLING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OTHER GROUPS SUCH AS MODERATE ISLAMISTS AL-SHABAB ARE FUNDED BY THE WAHHABIS AND SALAFIS AND WANT TO TURN SOMALIA LIKE AFGHANISTAN A SAFE HEAVEN FOR ARAB TERRORISTS LIKE AL-QAIDA WHO ARE CHASED OUT OF AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN     Lamadage @ 1/22/2009 4:57 PM EST  When someone has no clarity and vision based on Quran and correct sunnah this is what people like AbdiJowahar (kufri name) try to indulge. As bro diidgaal put it well the guy is lost soul and want Alshabab disappear from scene. I have been here for the last two years and so....I must say other Islamist like Jabiso also fought hard but they can't measure up with Alshabab interm of clarity, organization and objectives. If he was honest person, he would ask other people to lay down arm and file behind the Somali islamist led by Alshabab. Alas, he is in mission to distort or defame the reality on the ground. Somali Islamist is waiting them a daunting job to discount any conspiracy that takes place in Jabouti or else. May Allah give them strength to withstand all enemies until they form pure Islamic state.     diidgaal @ 1/22/2009 4:35 PM EST  Alqudus U R right this nuun is a complete fake. If all the people think shabaab is bad and so weak, then why can't they get rid of them? People in some parts of mogadishu must want shabaab else they wouldn't be there. Moreover, there is ni such thing as mogadishu people, they R divided. Some parts have not seen any fighting b/c they were with the ethiopians and now want Feedi back.Other pasrts R destroyed and couldn't care those who leave on the other side. So propaganda won't remove what ethiopians tanks couldn't. Keep dreaming, but soon U will wake up and smell the roses of shabaab and really enjoy it.     ibn-somal @ 1/22/2009 4:02 PM EST  They came to Somalia with a ICU adminstration of sorts, which was resembled a sort of collective force. Now they leave having prevented Islamists from taking over the whole of Somalia, killed thousands of Somalis, uprooted 2 million, destroyed MOgadishu, succedded in bringing one faction of Islamists 2 TFG government. They also leave the Islamists divided into competing fiefdoms and unable to make a government, some even fighting amongst each other. Yes. Ethiopia lost a few thousand men, but dictatorship of 70 million can easily replace. In short, Zenawi prevented Somali Islamists from over running the whole of Somalia and leaving Ethiopia without port acess.       alqudus @ 1/22/2009 11:04 AM EST  nuun youre lier and someone who sound like he was defeaded what alshabaab did was there all to see even the arch enemy of oure people ZANAWI admitted him self! CADOW waxaa kutahay nafsadaada oo kaliya ee ALLA haku hanuuniyo waxaana qiyaasayaa inaad soomaliya aadan waa yahan arag iska daa inaad hadda ka soo labataye hadi ay dhacdayna waxaa joogtay meelaha DABADHILIFYADA kunoolyihiin.     SOMSTAR @ 1/22/2009 10:11 AM EST  Excellent article..We might have won the battle but not the war and we have really defeated the enemy if we do not turn our guns on each other and the innocent Somali people who have sufferd for a long time. Am glad Shabab have realised the damage it caused them when they announced that they will continue with the war. Their subsequent statments and actions on ground is very encouraging. Ethiopia may have withdrawn their forces out of Somalia but we must realise that their spies and puppets are very active inside our country. All our differences can be solved without resorting to arms struggle. If 20 years of arnachy has thought us anything it must be no group or clan can subjugate another by use of force. The signs are good in Mogadisho and I pray to Allah for 2009 to be the year Somalia will regain its lost pride.     nuun @ 1/22/2009 10:03 AM EST  I just came back from Somalia. Even though the author is giving all the credit to Al-shabaab, the story in Somalia is totally different. Most of the  resistence saying, shabaab is known for big microphone and bad fighting. Abu Mansuur had big microphone and good at PR but when it came to inflicting harm on the enemy, alshabaab was the worst. The only thing they knew is throw Motors from populated areas. These motors usually miss there target or kill civilians. There were few ocassion, they try to ambush the enemy and what happened was they run away from technicalls and left to the enemy. The resitance blame al-shabaab for all the bad fighting. The perception of al-shabaab in Somalia among the resitance is that al-shabab is week against emeny strong against other Somalis.     diidgaal @ 1/22/2009 9:28 AM EST  Mr. Jawhar, excellent article until U started putting all the responsibility on shabaab without indicating how U want them to do. Do U want them to give up and lay arms down at the feet of those who killed thousands of somalis? Do U want them to disappear from political scene? Do U want them to hold election by the people for their leaders? Do U want them to participate in the warlord infested parliament? What is it that U specifically want thenm to do other than say they need to save people and opportunity? What about the useles leaders who R backed by foreign interests? U need to be little bit more clearer. Personally, I think U want them to disappear from the scene b/c U fear western retaliation. I say fear Allaah 1st for he alone  has the right to be feared.

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